Larry Jewell

Talking with Carol Scott and April Daniels, co authors of a brand new book called Paper Dolls. First of all, Carol, how did you and April get together to co author a book? This book is about healing from sexual abuse in Utah and April. The basis of the book is April's journal entries as she recovered memory of abuse that occurred to her as a child from multiple perpetrators and the stages of healing that she went through. And then she recorded that. My story, I was a therapist in Salt Lake City, and my story is the story of my grandchildren who were abused in a different neighborhood. Six grandchildren belonging to two families, along with other neighborhood children who were abused by four adults and a number of teenage perpetrators. And the thing that ties the two stories together is the fact that there was a common perpetrator who as a teenager abused April and then later, ironically, in fact was my son in law and along with other adults, abused children in a different neighborhood. April, how did you get to know Carol then? Just through that common abuser? No, I was friends with her daughters. And so at that point you started to compare notes. I always, my parents were alcoholics and I always really gravitated towards Carol's family. It was a place to go. And so when I really started having trouble, I knew that she knew about psychological things. I was like, if there was by chance if this could happen, I'd ask her questions like that at first, and then I'd ask her more and more questions. And then finally I just told her, I'm having all these memories. And then after I had all the memories, then she told me about Hank, her son in law, who was also one of my brothers. Now, Carol, as a therapist, this is quite common to have things suppressed and all of a sudden have these nightmarish memories come back. Yes, it's an amazing phenomena that our mind does in order to survive. It's like taking memories, taking experiences and not being able to handle them as a child, feeling totally helpless and too horrified, and locking those experiences in a box, which later something triggers and there is a key and the box opens. Some therapists refer to it as a time bomb. Maybe you're four and the time bomb is set for 27. Something happens when you're 27 years old. The memories are triggered. There's no way to turn them off once they begin. Now for April. April, why the book? Why write the book? Now the main reason I wrote this is for adult survivors, especially of sexual abuse, to let them know that not only can they heal and grow, but that they can enjoy life. To understand the Discovery and beauty that there is in life and that it is a good life. This is a lifelong recovery process, though, for you, isn't it? Yes, but it really helps if you turn inside and face your own pain, and if you divert yourself with work or eating disorders or overachievement or some people have drug addictions, then that's truly a lifelong process. So the healing process really began by looking inside. You kept the journal all of this time. That's unusual, isn't it, for someone who is a victim of abuse? I don't know how many victims or survivors write a journal. I go to a group of other women survivors, and there's quite a few of them that use writing as an outlet. So I don't know if that's unusual or not. Carol, is this. It isn't a fairly recent phenomenon to have the abuse, but is it fairly recent to actually have people come forward and say, hey, this has happened to me? It's very unusual. The statistics have skyrocketed, as probably most of us know, in the last decade. It's as if the silence is finally broken. We can talk about this as we now talk about alcohol, alcoholism, or physical abuse of children or other societal problems. And breaking the silence is half the cure, because the layers of silence from childhood on become almost as destructive as the abuse itself. The horror of the secret. This is quite common where it's happened in any community to have it hushed to some degree. Is this healing for a community to get it out? Oh, I think extremely healing. I think then we can all muster our forces and deal. And it's a big societal problem because there's no question that it leads to violence, to further perpetration, to drug addiction, to promiscuity, to family breakup, to dysfunctional families, on and on. 85% of prisoners are victims of this physical or childhood abuse. What were your feelings when April started to open up to you? I felt very sad, of course, very shocked that she was going through this. I wanted her to know of my story, but at that time, I had to protect my little grandchildren. And when I was finally able, had the right to speak to her on that, it was a wonderful thing to be able to share it for both of us, I believe. April, was it a relief to tell Carol, or to tell Carol? Oh, such a relief. Such a relief to have someone know and validate and guide to the healing process. When you started to tell your story, were you aware of how extensive this had been between the two families? No, I was not. Was that frightening? Was that kind of an emotional shock to see suddenly see this as kind of a web going through a couple of families. Yes, it was almost horrific. It was so hard, in my opinion. I think Hank, as a teenager, did certain activities, and then he got worse as he got older. He digressed, and that was hard to hear to the level he digressed to and what he did to his own children. That was very hard to hear. The scars are there, aren't they? Forever, aren't they, Carol? Yes, I believe the scars are there, but I think that there's some growth and strength that comes, too, and tremendous understanding and empathy for others in any kind of tragedy or. Or victimized situation. And I think that life can be extremely valued after you've gone through horrific pain. I hope that doesn't sound too Pollyanna ish, because you would never wish it on anyone. But we do learn. Are you surprised at the human condition that you can recover? Yes, I'm awestruck with it. The human spirit is so resilient. It's. It's incredible. Now that you've written the book, are you glad that you've done it? Oh, so very glad. Carol received a letter just yesterday from one of her clients from a long time ago, just talking about how it had touched her. And it was wonderful to hear that, to hear things like that. Yes. Was that really your goal, to try to help others? Yes. So many people have helped me that I wanted to give something back. I really did. What about the future? Obviously, as you get to be an adult, you have those scars from childhood, and they've stayed with you. What sort of things do you see for your future? What sort of things are you changing in your life or you're trying to get happening in your life or your future? For the first time in my life, I think I'm really in a place where I can discover and grow and enjoy just living, being alive. It's almost like being a child when you see the little children that are so excited about a bird or a rainbow or things like that. It's so much more than that. Salt Lake City is a major city, but not as big as some. Utah is somewhat of a rural state, and yet there's an urban area. This is a different society here. Were you surprised, Carol, it was happening in Utah? I was not surprised because I was a professional and knew that the statistics for Utah were exactly on the national average, no worse, no better. I think the great rise in statistics is partly due to much better reporting. More people are reporting it, but it may, in fact, also be related to the fact that society is in such stress and families are more and more dysfunctional, it would seem. As a victim. What do you recommend to others? First of all, to get a therapist. Joseph Campbell writes about taking the journey inside for growth. And in order to grow, you need to heal first and then you can grow. So you need professional help to help guide you on that journey inward. Carol, from the professional's point of view, what's your recommendation again? Therapy. I do not think you can go through this alone successfully. I mean, I'm sure some people have done it, but it would be a very extraordinary task. I think you need a good professional to help you with it who really understands the stages we have labeled them in our book, despair, rage. I mean, denial, despair, rage, confrontation, and finally acceptance, letting go. I think you need professional help. Carol Scott, April Daniels, thank you for being with us. The book once again is Paper Dolls. Thank you, Carol. Thank you very much. And April, thank you. Congratulations. Thank you.