Larry Jewell

3, 2, 1. Coach Neil Roberts, you must be one of the few coaches in the country, if there are any others, who has a winning record against College of Southern Idaho. And now you get another shot at them tonight. Well, we've been fortunate. We've beat them a couple of times on their home floor. But in the paper up here it mentioned that we kind of had a dominant situation over csi. It really hasn't been a dominant situation that beat us a couple of times and we happen to have won more than they have. But great basketball traditions here at College of Southern Idaho and good coaching, great recruiting. They have a good basketball team this year. They've lost four games and they've only lost one game since we beat them at our place. And so they're playing well at the present time. They've beaten Ricks at Ricks, which is an indication of how strong they really are. They've already played once this week. They beat Weaver down at Weaver. They play us tonight and then they come back and play Ricks here next Saturday night. So it's a big week for them. This is a guard dominated team, at least the, the CSI team that Dixie saw in November. The two key people were the guards. Well, they still are. Beech, of course, is a fine offensive player. They've gone a little more to Rohrer and Kennedy, which are the two forwards that are playing quite well at the present time. In fact, both of them scoring a lot better. Kennedy was just off a broken foot. He had his foot in the cast and got it off and was just getting back on it when they played in St. George. So I'm sure he's going to be a lot better. Plus the team has a lot of pride and their basketball program here has a lot of pride, which I'm sure they're going to play better tonight. This is a different style of CSI team. Oftentimes they've had the big men up front. This time a little smaller front line, but quicker. You know, it's interesting the way that kind of teams have looked at what they're doing. I know that we've kind of built our philosophy at Dixie College on not so much being concerned with the bigger people to get the good or better athlete and just let the players kind of evolve into what happens with it and play your best kids. And I think CSI has gone to that philosophy as well. In fact, their coaches mentioned that they want a little more a better athlete as well as better shooters. I think Snow has done that as well this year. And so not that we started it but yet we haven't worried about size. They aren't this year either. They haven't experienced extremely big team last year that didn't do that well. This seems to be happening also at the major college level. You're getting a lot of your top major college teams, Louisville for example, more mid range ballplayers instead of the big seven footers. Well, mid range in six'10, six' eight guys. But I know Kentucky has a couple six' five forwards that play extremely well. Quickness is still what it is, quickness and shooting ability. But yet size, if you can have those aspects with the two, really helps out. CSI is not as big as they have been. That's true. Yet they're just as good as rebounders as they ever have been and they're better defensively than they have been. This Dixie team has leveled off. It's become a high level team and a very consistent team since the Santa Ana tournament. Well, since Christmas time we got together, came back and been in our conference play. We could have very easily with our last ball game, could have been undefeated in Conference of 5 and 0, which would have been a surprise to everyone I believe. But yet there's a few things happening with our team that we're very pleased about. Alan Raymond is now, we feel like ready to play and is playing quite well at the time and Byron Vitoy is really ready to play now. And these are freshmen that have come along and have really improved a great deal and we're going to play them tonight. Now, win or lose, we're going to to play these kids tonight. Team wise, statistically, the shooting percentage is getting back up into the range that Dixie is used to, 50% and above. Well in our last ball game we shot over 60% even though we lost and we did turn the ball over quite a bit. And we've spent a lot of time this week working on those aspects. Not to beat ourselves, to get a good shot every time down the floor and then to have your better shooter shoot the ball. But yes, we feel good about our shooting percentage. We should feel good about about the way our free throw percentage has come along as well. And now it's our job just to make sure we get into the good shot every time and of course to keep the good defense and boards the way they have been. One of the things that's helped get the better shots and something that doesn't show up so much on the statistics is the passing. Much crisper, much sharper than it has been earlier in the year. Even in spite of the turnovers against them. Well, I think that when you run motion offense, it is a slow developing offense in that it takes a long time for it to get where you want to be comfortable with it. But the more they play and the longer they're together, the more they know what to expect from each other and also what they can do and can't do as far as an offensive player is concerned. But our passing is a lot better and when your passing is better, it seems like everything goes better offensively. Unhappy loss against Snow the kids did not seem to be down. What about taking this week off from a conference play? Will there be a problem getting ready for CSI and byu? I think there is. This team has had that problem all year long in that when the big game is there and we have to play well, they have played well. But on the other hand, when they just go out and play, they've had a hard time with that. Part of the reason for the poor showing earlier in the year in California was I really believe that the motivation of the team wasn't as high as it should have been. In other words, they had a hard time just saying the this is a ball game, let's go out and play the very best we can. They just looked at it in a little different light, saying this is a ball game. But and I don't really know how well we're going to play tonight. I think we're going to play well because we practiced extremely well and I think we're going to play well because our people that haven't played a great deal have made big strides in the last month and they're pushing as far as starting is concerned, especially Vitoy and especially Raymond. 3, 2, 1. Talking with Paul Conrad, the head basketball coach of Colorado Northwestern coach A disappointing season in the icac, but your kids still have a shot at playoff action. Well, we're 13 and 16 overall and we haven't won a conference game. We've been in a lot of them. We hustle hard and we work hard, but we just haven't been able to get over the hump. So it's been disappointing for us. But we have some. Six of our ten kids are freshmen, so we'll have six of them back. Small group, quick groups. Yeah, we're not real big again, we're like we always are. We usually got some pretty good shooters and our kids are fair jumpers, but they kind of tire down against the bigger kids a little bit later in the game and that always hurts us. But if we shoot well and play a little defense. You know, we can stay in a lot of ball games. You've had some kids that have shown well for you this year. The Springs kid, good ball handler. David's a telegram. He won't score much for us, but he handles well and he understands what his job is and he runs our offense and gets us going and gets us into our offense that way that helps us a lot. McBrien, one of the best shooters in the conference. Tommy's been doing a good job. He's about 16, 18 points a game, and he's been very consistent for us. He only had one bad game, and that was up at Rick's. And after that, he's been scoring well and he gets pretty good, pretty good shots. He gets good shots that he can make. I think he has good shot selection, which helps him a lot. The Decker kit has provided some good strength on the boards in addition to shooting. Decker's been up and down for us. He played better the first semester than he has the second semester. He's been kind of a disappointment for us here lately, and we hope that he'll come around and, you know, mature for us and be strong for us next year. This team, now, your CNCC ball club, gets the chance to play the spoiler role. You take on two of the top three teams in the league this weekend, you could ruin a lot of good records. Well, they're both on the road, though, and that's the tough part. And it's been a long time since we won down here. I think last time we won down here is when Doug was his last year. That's the only game we've won down here for a long time. So that's about four or five years ago. So it's. You know, we could be. We played well against Snow last time. They beat us 14 at home. And then we come up against you guys the second night and you wiped us away. So it's hard to tell if we play good the first night, maybe we won't play good the second night. I don't know. It's unbelievable with these kids sometimes. What about tonight's game? What will be the key for your Volta? Well, I think if we can play some defense and contain the offense a little bit, keep them from getting it down inside, will make a big factor for us. And if we can score early and set the tempo of the game, if we can do that, then that will make a difference for us. What about a starting lineup tonight for the Spartans? We'll go with David Springs at point guard, David's only about 5 8. The other guard, we'll go with Freddy Myers, and Freddy's averaging about 14 points a game for us. We'll go with Tom McBrien at the 1. Forward, Tommy's about 6 3. We'll go with Marcus Harris at our post markets, about six' six. And then we're going to start a freshman and see what he can do for us. We're starting David Kaufman, Dean Kaufman, and Dean is about 65 for us. We're going to give him a shot, see what he can do for us and see if he's going to help us for next year. Freddy Myers has been one of the best shooters in the conference, an amazing shooter on occasion. Yeah, he comes in and when he's hot, you better give it to him. If he's not hot, then you better set him down for a little bit. But he's a street shooter and he'll hit seven or eight in a row for you and he'll put you up and he'll get you back in a ball game. He plays pretty good defense. You know, he gets overlooked a little bit that way, but he's got a lot of his shots where he steals the ball and goes down and gets a pretty good shot off of that. So he works hard both ends of the floor, not just offense. This trip, picking up Dixie and Snow on the same trip, that's got to be a tough trip for any coach. Yeah, it always is when you got the top two teams in a conference year in and year out. Both these ball clubs are right up there all the time, and it's a bear when you go on against those two. Coach Paul Conrad, thank you for being with us. Good luck tonight. Thank you. Appreciate it. Talking with Dixie College head basketball coach Neal Roberts. Coach, this is the weekend that you can determine your own fate as far as a regional championship or regional berth. One, you clinched at least a tie for that bird. Well, we expect to win both and we're playing quite well. I'm not dissatisfied with our basketball teams. Of course, you'd like to win all the ball games, but we've been right there and if we can correct some things, I think we have an excellent chance in regionals, and we hope that we can play well this weekend in preparation for. Of course, we also have to keep in mind, if we drop a couple, we're definitely not going. And if we win one and CEU happens to win two, then we're tied. So it's really our job to go out Win a couple as we can. This CNCC ball club on occasion has given Dixie some problems, but not since you've been a coach. You've won every game against Ballcon, right? Well, some of them weren't exactly, you know, shoe ins. I remember a team that took third in the nation was tied at halftime up there with them came out played next in the second half. But you know, they're not a bad team. I think they beat Rex by only 12 a couple weeks ago they played CEU to a one point game up there and so they've come in here very similar to what Trade Tech is. They don't have a chance to win anything. They haven't won a game. If they can beat out their snow, it really kind of make their year. So they're going to come in and free and at ease and not worry about things and just come and play. So I expect a pretty good ball game. In fact, there's probably a pretty high possibility they could hold the ball against us. They have a couple of very quick guards in Myers and Springs. Yeah, Myers, an excellent shooter too. Springs really small and does a pretty good job handling the ball, but he doesn't really score a great deal. Myers had 19 against us before and really plays quite well. Your ball club has shown some amazing comeback ability late this year a couple of times falling short, but it's been some miracle comebacks. Well, I like to be able to play earlier in the ball game with the same intensity that we try to play the last five minutes. If we could get that across and play in the middle parts of each quarter, I think we'd be better off rather than having to try to come back from 10 or 12 down in the last five minutes. You have a couple of ballplayers that are playing with great intensity now. Maxwell Gordon Anderson. Gordon Anderson's really been the last two weeks especially, has played extremely well and had one of the best games he's ever played up at Trade Tech and hopefully that will continue right on through the regionals and the rest of them will also pick it up. John Bauckham, after a string of great games, had a poor game against Ricks. Boy, I felt sorry for him. He just could not make that thing go in. He went one for eight and did everything in the world he could to try to get it going. Let it affect the rest of his game as well, his defense and his rebounds and a few things, but hopefully he'll have a better night than that tonight. What about starting lineup? Same as has been. Yes, it will we'll stay with Maxwell and Sean Anderson on the guard line, Gordon Anderson inside, Bauckham at one forward and Dan Bell at the other. Cncc, you expect to try to stall the game is the key to get an early lead? Well, jump ball might be the most important part of the whole ball game. I don't know if we can say we really expect them. We have to be prepared that they could hold the ball because they've done it in past occasions. In fact, they did it at Rick's. And having beat them by 30 up on their floor, I wouldn't be surprised if they try something new. There was a situation at cncc, a little bit of extracurricular physical activity late in the ball game. Are the kids anxious to get at CNC because of that? I don't know if they even remember it. We haven't brought it up at all and I don't think they have either. I don't think that went into the game at all. You have a couple of ballplayers that seem to play extremely well against cncc. Westheimer seems disappointed. We should save his best games for Colorado Northwest. We should save his best games for the big opponents rather than those that were way ahead on. But he had an excellent ball game up there against him. Coach Neil Roberts, thank you for being with us. Good luck tonight. Thank you, Larry. It's not. 3, 2, 1. We're talking with Kurt Jensen, head basketball coach at College of Eastern Utah. Coach, it's got to be a pleasing year. You were in most of the ball games this year and your kids, right down to the end, had a shot at the regionals. Yes, we felt good about it. Of course, it's not always a good odds to come to Snow and Dixie and have a chance at the regional, but at least we had that opportunity. And if we had won last night, it could have come down to tonight's game, at least for a share or a playoff situation to go to the regional tournament. So we feel good about the progress of the program. We've made steady progress the last couple years and we've had a good season. We played some real good ball and got a good group of kids and I've enjoyed this season. Except for a couple of close games, one with Dixie earlier at the season, that really haunts us. We've had a good year. Speaking about that game with Dixie earlier, it seems like every year CEU gets hot in the final 10 minutes of the ball game. Yeah, we really came on and made a great comeback that night. And that's what was kind of frustrating that the kids had played so super to come back and get into the game and had a chance to win and then didn't that really hurt us. And I think it showed the next night because we were really down against Snow College and that was probably the worst game we've had had all year. This is one of the larger ball clubs you've had. Yes, yes. We've had pretty good size this year and that's helped us. And we've had good quickness too and just good balance. I really enjoyed working this year with this group. Able to do a little more than usual. Ted Gwynn has really developed into a consistent ball player for you. Yes, he's had a great year. Had a super night last night. I hope he's got some left tonight. Brad Boyle turned out to be the best rebounder in the league. Yes, Brad is a very fine jumper. Got good timing, good hands, strong, and he's done a good job for us. We've been real pleased with Brad this season and Price. Dwayne Newsom was one of the keys for CEU getting back to that ball game. Newsom extremely quick. Yes, he is very quick. Really helps us. He's had some real solid ball games for us. Been a little down lately, which has hurt us a little. But during the middle part of the season he's played extremely well for a player who is just a walk on and we're real happy with him. That type of talent. You must have some scouts following you around from some of the four year schools. Well, we've had a few that have put out some feelers. So far, nothing real sensational yet, but I'm sure there are a couple of players that have got good opportunities to go on and play somewhere. Now, admittedly this game, no matter what happens, win or lose, you'll finish fourth, Dixie will finish third. It won't make any difference to either of all club. How do you get your kids up for a final game like this? That's a good question. I don't know. I hope that they have enough pride in themselves that they want to play well and finish the year with a good ball game. Sometimes it doesn't work that way. Subconsciously. They may want to do that, but sometimes it just just isn't there because there really isn't anything to fight for. So, you know, in a way you're not really that up for this kind of a game. Although you are relaxed and sometimes that's helpful too. Last night you had an outstanding effort against Snow Snow finally got you right at the end. Yes, we had a real fine game, very tight first half, and we were in it all the way until right at the end had a chance. We got down to five, and late in the game we had a chance to do it and a couple of mistakes, and they. They're a good team and they played very well and. But I was very pleased with our effort. We almost got them and there, you know, that was a night where the game meant something to us, and I think that helped us, too, in getting prepared and in the effort that we had. Let's talk a little bit about tonight's game. The key for CDU versus Dixie. Well, we've got to play good defense against Dixie, as usual. I know every year we come down here, it seems like they just shoot the eyes out of the hoop, so hopefully we can turn that off a little bit. We've got to be patient on offense and not get behind and stay close or we're in trouble on this court. I still remember one game that you played on this floor that really was a shocker to a lot of Snow College fans on the league playoff. That's true. I remember that, too. That was a highlight a couple of years ago, three years ago, I guess, when we had a league championship tournament and was really interesting that some of the scouts that came to see the final championship game wanted to know where Snow College was. And of course, we had eliminated them the night before, and they came to watch Snow and Dixie play. So it did us some good that night. I felt real good about that. A lot of people are wondering. I know that there have been a lot of promises thrown at CEU and at the athletic program by school administrators up the line that says, hey, there's going to be a basketball facility at ceu. How close is that? Well, it's as close as what the legislature will do for us and whether or not they will bond enough money this year to start building that project. We've had the plans drawn for many years, and it's approved, and everybody knows that we need it. But now the legislature has got to come up with the money, and I think if they go to the bonding, which they're going to be discussing next week, then we may have a good chance to get it. We were fifth on the list, but somehow moved down to 14th, you know, when they start jockeying. So that hurt us a little, too. We're still optimistic that it might happen. If we don't get it this year, then I don't know what Will happen. May be a while. It might be a while again. Yes, it's something we really need. It would really help the whole league if we had that facility. Back to this game tonight, what about a starting lineup for ceu? We'll go the same way that we've been playing with Boyle and Ensign and Gwen Newsom and Holston. Four sophomores and one freshman coach Kurt Jensen, thank you for being with us. Good luck tonight. Thank you. Talking with Dixie College head basketball coach Neil Roberts, Neal, a good performance last night, especially that shutout for 10 and a half minutes. Well, it's nice to start the ball game 22 points ahead where you can just sit back and play a lot of people and try to do some things. And one thing that really helped us last night is we've been working on an offense against a zone that's a little bit different and by getting up like that, give us a chance to use it for a good portion of the ball game until the players became more and more familiar with it and comfortable with it. And I was really pleased with the way we got out and the way we played early. And I was really pleased the way we played second half in fact defensively and board wise when in fact we beat them on the boards. I think it was 60 to 20, 23 or something like that. Probably as aggressive as the tensions have been since the first month that we were playing led by Dan Bell. Bell had a super night on the boards and scoring well. We spent some time with Dan this week talking about his responsibility is not just to be a player on the team, but be a special player on this team. And last night he was that. He really dominated board wise and really worked hard offensively. He's just been kind of playing, playing along, doing his part and playing well. But he's got to exert himself and be an outstanding player rather than just a player. Plus, he had some help too. Gordon Anderson was extremely strong on the boards and then John Bakken got back to the boards too. One thing about Dan, I don't think I've ever seen anybody have more successful layups that have had 16 bounces before they've gone down. He never hits one of them clean, but they all go in. Well, that's also true from his free throw line that he's got an awful lot of close or else they're not going to go down for him. He just works hard, he gets it in, he makes a good move to the basket. He's got good hands. He's sure with what he does there and those rebounds he gets are just hard work. Just getting in the right position at the right time, getting ready to rebound and just getting it off. Gordon Anderson playing as intense as any ballplayer that I've ever seen at Dixie he is. The last two weeks especially, he's got back to every bit as good as we expected Gordon Anderson to be. There will be times that he'll miss shots, there'll be times that we expect him to play a little better than he does. But his total concentration right now, stat wise last night I think went 5 for 6 in the field, 2 for 3 in the line, had 11 rebounds and I believe he had seven steals in the ball game. You can't ask a player to do more than that, especially from the post position. John Bauckham still struggling with his shooting but doing other good things for you? Well, John, the way he shoots is either going to be extremely hot or he's going to struggle with it somewhat. And at times he does struggle with it. At times he's got the ball on the string and can just do with it what he wants. But he didn't shoot really well last night, but yet it was interesting. We get on him about his shooting and people complain about it, but he shot 50%. Robert Maxwell, Mark Duran, a good one two punch there at that point. Guard Mark Duran causes excitement when he comes in, I guess. Yeah, you're right. It's exciting because you don't know what to expect. And it's exciting because from the player standpoint, you know they're going to get the ball in the fray and he keeps his head up and he keeps his concentration on the floor and he'll get him the ball if they're open. But yet on the other hand, he will make some mistakes because he tries to press at times. Last night, a combination of your win against CNCC and CEU's loss at Snow College, that puts you into the regionals no matter what. Tonight you'll finish third, CEU will finish fourth and you go to Arizona also. We know that Mesa won their ballgame there and also Scottsdale won their ball game. So either way we're going to be playing that ball game in the Mesa Scottsdale, which is the Phoenix area next week and we plan on. We have no idea who are going to be playing that first game they'll play tonight to go with it. So it should be interesting. We hope we have a good game tonight to have a carry over in the next weekend. It'd be nice to face Scottsdale Again. And yet the Mace Addixie rivalry has developed. Well, I think it's developed from the standpoint that it seems like Mace and Dixie always end up playing each other at the end of the year and naturally that's going to develop some rivalries. We've had a chance to beat them. They've had some chances to beat us as well. In fact, last year we. We ended up playing Mesa the first game. The year before that we played him the first game. The year before that we played him the first game. So it seems like Dixie Mesa either end up first or second and play each other quite a bit. And we wouldn't mind that a bit tonight against ceu. What do you do with ceu? This is a big rugged ball club and he chased you into overtime last time. Yes, we got up 16, 18 points even in the second half and they came back and and really got into us and played hard and we had some letdowns and we were fortunate to win in overtime and is the reason we're in a position right here now is because we got that overtime win, which puts us up a couple of games on them. But yet Brad Boyle is a heck of a rebounder. He had 29 rebounds in one ball game this year and he can score inside as well. He's averaged over 14 points a ball game. And Quinn is really a good offensive machine. He had 31 last night and they went box and one on him. He still had 31. Dwayne Newsom was a particular thorn in your side up there. The little point guard, he had 20 and most of it was taken to the hole just extremely quick and we hope we can get that shut down somewhat tonight. Starting lineup for Dixie tonight, same as always? Yeah, same as it has been the last couple ball games. Our rotation off the bench will be the same. That lineup that we're talking about will be Maxwell and Sean Anderson at guards, Dan Bell and also John Bob Bachama Ford's and Gordon Anderson at center. Coach Neil Roberts, thank you for being with us. Good luck tonight. Thank you, Larry. Three, two, one. I'm talking with Dixie College head football coach Ray Odette, who's now suddenly the head basketball coach. This is a strange turn of events on the penalty from the Utah High School Association. Well, you know, it's been done, Larry, and what's done's done. And I'm not the head basketball coach, Larry. I'm just going to go out there and we're going to do with the kids and just hope we can do the best we can do tonight. Now, you've had a very successful junior varsity here. Well, yeah, that's true. We've been lucky. We've got some good kids there. But you know, the state tournament. Anything can happen in the state tournament. Now, the mechanics of what takes place up here. How restricted is Mark foe? Very. He can't even go into the dressing room before the game. At the half or after the game? Game, immediately after the game. He won't even be able to go into the dressing room, period. He just stays with the team when you get outside of the event center. Right. And well, you know, there's things that go on during the day. Of course, we're not that naive, but he's just not allowed in the dressing room period or on the bench. That's got to be. Got to be tough. You're a head coach in the football having been in that situation. If you were put in a situation, Mark both, it would be frustrating, I imagine. Oh, yes, to say the least. You know, you bring a thoroughbred along and take them right up to the last big event of the year and you can't put them in the race and somebody else has got to do it for you. It's bound to be a little frustrating and a little tough. The kids have got to be a little bit depressed about the situation, not having Mark with them. But how are they reacting? Well, I think that's mark of a good coach. They're not depressed. They're ready to go. That's a mark of a good coach and Mark Polt that the kids are not depressed. He's brought them all and coached them all year. They're ready to go. This tournament is going to be tough. Well balanced. Hey, we're sitting right here watching Provo and Jordan play and they're both excellent basketball teams and that means we either get. I hope we play the winner. Well, you'll get one or the other. Either one. Right? We'll get one or the other. Either way, it's going to be a tough tournament. As we mentioned, Temp View favored over Murray, not favored by whole bunch. Tempview came up with a victory. That's what I understand. And we saw the Spanish Ogden game and Spanish played Ogden very, very tough. And Ogden is a good ball club. Provo has to be the favorite. No question about it. This is a good, classy ball club and I just hope Dixie gets a chance to play tomorrow or Wednesday night, I guess. Let's talk a little bit about the mechanics. What sort of preparation have you gone through with Mark? Both Prior to coming to this tournament, everything I can think of, Larry, you know, in our practices and everything the last since we found out the turn of events was going to be. We've just worked together and tried to communicate the best way that we can and just going to go out and see what happens. We're not going to change anything. We're going to go with what's got us here. We've won 16 ball games and that's not too bad and we're not about to change anything up Now Jerry Dyer has joined you as an assistant. Did so about mid year when this penalty came forward. Right. Jerry's very observant. He contributes very much to the overall program and we're glad to have him tonight Going into this game against Logan High School. Logan has been an up and down ball club down here. Really by the by hair, Brett's difference over box elder. What do you expect out of Logan? Hey, they're very tough. They've got some six, five people down on the bottom and they've got some excellent people on the outside and their preseason schedule is very good. They played Mountain View to 10, they played Orem to a two point loss. They've lost some very close games with some good basketball teams. We're facing a very good team tonight. What do you expect out of them offensively, on defensively? Offensively, the. They're very deliberate, Larry. They don't take bad shots. They work it around and work it around and go for the good shot and they're very, very deliberate. They'll fast break when they get the opportunity and we expect a 2, 3 zone for Dixie. Will the pressure from the guards be the key? We hope so. This is what we've been working on. This is what we're going to try to do. We think that our defense has been pretty good to us most of the time all year causing turnovers and this is what we're going to have to work for. What about a starting lineup tonight? There was a change last time out against Cedar City. Will that change remain in effect? No, we're going to go back with Hill going to forward shot. Then we'll go with the same kids that's been starting all year. Go field back in at Foley. Cole lay Ron Wade to the guard line. Right. You've had some outstanding individual performances even though it's been a good team effort this year. Dave Espin, Rom lay their senior years of well, they better be great here because you know the tournament's another season and they're just going to have to keep carrying us. And I felt that it's been a pretty good overall team effort, but your seniors have got to carry and that's all there is to it in this tournament like this. Now, a lot of the kids had the experience last year as a junior oriented ball. That's true, Larry, and that's why we're depending on them so much tonight. Chad Cooper, one of the big surprises this year as the season went on and he's coming along. We hope we can get Chad so he doesn't get in foul trouble at the start of the game. Early part of the game and I think Chad will be a factor to reckon with here by Logan. Any injury problems? No, no, nothing. We're ready to go. Coach Ray Odette, thank you for being with us. Good luck tonight. Thanks, Larry. If there's any luck floating around, give it to us, will you? I'm talking with the head basketball coach at Dixby High School, Mark Post. Coach. As we greeted each other, I said it could be worse and you said, yes, it couldn't be here. You are here. Yeah, we feel good about that. And the kids, I think are playing pretty well right now. We got a good team unity and we're coming up here to win. This is kind of like being a candy addict standing outside the closed up candy store, isn't it? You just can't reach in and touch at all. Yeah, that's pretty, pretty much the situation. I'll just have to, you know, try to be patient. I have a lot of confidence in a coach, Odette, which makes it a lot easier from your side. What sort of preparations have you laid out prior to this tournament? Well, you know, us and the coaching staff, me and Ray and Jerry have sat down and, you know, went over the scouting reports that we've got on Logan and, you know, matched up and pretty well have our game plan, you know, all in effect. All Ray's got to do is carry the game plan out and make the adjustments that need to be made during the course of the game and, you know, give it the best shot that we can and let the chips fall where they fall. But I feel real good about it. Logan has a tendency to be a slowdown team and you have a tendency to pressure people with those guards. Should be a good matchup. Yeah, we're going to come out and press them right off the bat. You know, usually you do the press. We're going to get some turnovers or they're going to get some easy shots. So it kind of takes a Team out of their slow down game, they're either going to have to come down and shoot the ball or, you know, we're going to get some turnovers and hopefully we'll get them going into our tempo. We're going to try to upbeat our tempo a little bit up here at the tournament and utilize our quickness a little bit more. One of the problems coming from Southern Utah is the Northern Utah press is really unsure of Dixie. It's kind of divided whether Dixie or Logan will win this game in the predictions. Well, yeah, I saw the Tribune picked Logan by five and I think the Deseret News picked us. I don't know by how many, but yeah, it's a, you know, toss up wise. No one even really knows how good we really are. They haven't really seen us. At times we look really good and at other times we don't look too good. So, you know, it's kind of a funny team. If we play well, we're capable of playing with anybody up here. But if we don't play well, we're capable of losing to anybody. So I think it just go out and see how we play. If we get in our tempo and if we shoot the ball well, I think we'll be in good shape. Last time out against Cedar City, the kids had a cold shooting first half. Otherwise it might have been a different story. Yeah, I thought that was a difference in the game. The first half they shot 50 something percent and we shot about 35 and you know, that took us out of the ball game. We missed a lot of easy shots and we've had hot and cold nights. It's funny, some games will go out. Against Springville we shot the ball really well. We were over 50% for the whole game. And another night we'll come out and shoot 30 something percent. So it's, you know, that's not part of the game. It's really hard to coach, you know, a kid to make a bucket or not. It's just something that happens or doesn't happen. But I think our shot selection has been very good. It's just that we've been getting dry spells and that's what's been hurting us. One thing that's taking place is four of your starters have had significant experience in the state tournament last year. Two games. Yeah, four of them are coming back. They know what it's all about. They went up last year and you know, we played Tempe really well. Then the next night against Judge, we didn't play well at all. And got hammered pretty good. But they know what it's like up here. They know what the competition's like. They know what you have to do to win up here and hopefully they'll do those things tonight. Now if you win tonight, well, in fact, win or lose, you're going to run into either the pre tournament favorite or the team that probably has the best shot of upsetting them. Yeah, that's true. Provo and Jordan are playing right now two exceptional ball clubs. I think Provo is the stronger of the two. They're out here playing scrappy, really tough defense. I think this is probably the best defensive team I've seen all year long and I think that's why they got the current nine point lead over Jordan. But if we win, I look to play Provo. I think Provo is the team to beat and I think they are beatable though. So it will be interesting. This tournament so far Ogden has won over Spanish Gork against a surprisingly tough Spanish Gork team. Tim Few, given an arm load by Murray, still able to come out with the win. Any surprises in those two games for you? A lot of people were surprised at the Spanish sport game. It came out an eight point lead with Ogden, but it was a one point game. Most of the first three quarters went back and forth. Spanish had the lead, you know, quite a bit of the time. And I think Ogden's got a, you know, fine ball club but I think we're capable of, you know, our region is very capable of playing with that, the Ogden region up north. So I wasn't overly impressed with Ogden but they do got a fine ball club but I think they're beatable. Coach Mark Pose, we'll let you get back into your easy chair now. It may not be quite as hot as along the coaching lines but it's in a way you still got to be comfortable just to know that you brought the team here. Yeah, we're here and we're going to come up here and give it our best shot. I hope the kids can play well and show the people the kind of basketball we can play, you know, down south. And a good showing up here would, you know, make us feel good our last year in 3A for a while. Best of luck with your ulcer. Well, thank you, Larry. We'll be back with more pre game activity after this. 3, 2, 1. I'm talking with Ray Odette of Dixie High School. Coach, this is one game you'd like to win just because of the former ties with Jordan if nothing else. Well, not Only that, Larry. But we want to stay in the tournament. We don't want to get knocked out of the tournament here. But we're facing a real good basketball team again tonight. Boy, they're tall. But if we get things going here, we might do something with them Monday night. Disappointing and yet encouraging at the same time. The comeback was encouraging. The general play was a little bit disappointing. Very. It was, Larry. You know, you hear tournament jitters and I believe that's what turn the ball over as many times as we did. I think it was 24. And hey, you can't win ball games doing that. And I just think it had a lot to do with the first round of the tournament. And that's the way it is sometimes in tournament play. A lot of the kids individually struggle. Yes, that's what I'm talking about with the tournament play. They get a little glassy eye being in here for the first time and the first time at Weber State. It's a fine facility. Yes, you're beautiful. Beautiful place. And I think a little bit of tournament fever struck us. Jordan High School, they were humiliated by Provo with provost defense as strong as any defensive team in this tournament. That's what scares us. I think they probably got mad and they'll come out mad. You hold a team like this, Jordan team to 24 points is almost unbelievable because they got 6, 8 and 656-5-6, 3, 6 1. That's a big ball club. And I just hope they don't get mad when they come out here. Jordan's been a streaky club all year. Eight game winning streak at one time. They're in a four game losing streak right now. I hope it's five. I hope it's five. But they are up and down. But they're a good team and we expect a good tough ball game here. Feeling among the kids is the edge off now? Are they more comfortable with this field house? I believe so. We're getting settled down a little bit here, you know, and all and things, but it's still a lot of edge. You know, our backs are against the wall. When you get in the constellation, you know, you lose, it's over. You go home tonight. The key, or I should say this afternoon, the key for Dixon, rebound. Hey, we've got to and shooting, Larry. We've got to make a good shooting percentage, take the good shot because, hey, they're a lot closer to the basket than we are. We either better get good board position or we better make some shots. That's all there is to it and of course our defense is always the important thing, but if we can't make those easy shots like we blew Monday, we're going to be in trouble. Jordan, can they handle the pressure from the guards from Biggsy? I hope not. We think our guards might be a little quicker, but we're just going to have to wait and see. Great performance, Arthur. Bench Ron Denon. Okay. Three of the Rebels. Yeah, we're at. Oh, boy. Three, two, one. Coach Neal Roberts. This has been, how can we say, an off the wall day in preparation for this game. Everyone seems to be loose. Well, you know, it's hard to say. I haven't been around the players all day long, but I think they're ready to play. After pregame, Mill sat down with John Baucom for just a minute to talk about some of the things we're going to try to do. And he says, I've never felt better about going into a ball game and also the total team, not just himself. So, you know, we're coming off a couple of good weeks of basketball going into a situation that we've prepared for all year long. We talk about it being our third season and it is the third season preseason and then of course our regular season and preparation and all of it is really preparation for this time of year. If we can play well, it's a reward for all the time they've spent. And I really feel great about our chances to win this evening. And we were talking last night going over to a practice session, you mentioned that this team seems to play best when they're relaxed going into a game and not teed up. Well, we found out over the course of the year we talked about personalities of different types of teams. Some teams get so serious that it's hard or difficult to even say anything around them. But yet other teams, they can't play under those types of circumstances. It just depends on the type of kids and also the background of the they came from. This group of people seems to play a lot better when they're free and easy and don't worry about things. And of course, when you get to this stage, it's hard not to worry about different aspects of the game but yet they seem to really settle into it and they're confident in what they're doing. They seem to relax today. One thing that seems to be taking place every time you come to Arizona for a playoff, you usually meet first round a team that has given you a bad time earlier in the year and the kids really want to to get to them again, this is another team, Scottsdale. Well, they beat us by two the first game we played in the tournament down here and played extremely well in that. They beat us 81, 79 in that ball game. We missed 13 or 14 free throws. So we definitely had our chance and towards the end of the game did tie the score and had the ball back and had a chance to win the game. And then they went on and won the tournament. They're a good basketball team. In fact, they have one of their players was named as the most valuable player in the Arizona Conference and will be an All American nomination. Besides an excellent player. His name's Brown. He's a 6, 4, 4. That does create problems for us, Crockett. The little guard outside really creates a problem for us. But when we played the first time, and I'm sure they've made some adjustments since their first game as well, we play not really know what we have. And especially we don't know anything about what they have. And there's really not a carryover from year to year in junior college because of development of the older kids and also the young kids coming in. You never know what someone has yet we tried to press Crockett, something he can't do because he's so quick. We didn't realize that Brown was so good. He had 20 against us. Taylor also had 17 against us. So those players are players that we hope we'll be able to handle. We know ourselves better now and definitely know a little more about Scottsdale. They've added a little more size off the bench. In Cecil's corner, Scroggins, who's now eligible. Well, Scroggins was ineligible because of the academics. And even though he does come off the bench, he doesn't play a great deal. So I don't know what a factor he'll be. However, the center that does play Jones is a good player. This is a match up in this regional tournament of four teams. Three of the coaches have been here time and time again. And the coach for Scottsdale, Rand Hook, is only in his second year at Scottsdale. Well, he's inherited a pretty good team. Last year when. When he came in. Well, not inherited, but he brought that team with him and had a very difficult time last year. But yet the maturity of his sophomores have really played quite well. They've won 27 games. They have lost three. All of his losses have been to games that he could have won. And they've never been blown away. They've had an excellent year. Offensively they like to run. Yes, they do. They really like to run. We really feel like that we've got to make them play against our set defense every time down on the floor, either their man or the zone. And then we also really believe that we can run on them, but we've got to get back and make them work hard for every shot they get. Plus they board well. They're a good basic team. You don't win 27 ball games and not be a good team. Defensively, they like the man to man. They played man to man every minute of every ball game. So they're basically a man to man team. It's really interesting. The four teams that are in the regionals, which realistically are the four best teams in our region, all four teams are basically man to man teams. We change up a little bit, Snow changes up a little bit, and so is mesa. But yet 80% of the time all the teams here will be playing man to man, which might say a little bit for that type of defense. As far as the Dixie team, Gordon Anderson blossoming over the last couple of weeks has made the center's position as strong as it's ever been. It is, and I mean this literally, between he and Rich Carmelian. It's the strongest when we had Johnny Gilbert in the post because those players are playing dominant. They're blocking shots, they're rebounding, they're taking the ball to the hole. They're creating problems that we haven't had. And then our forwards have become more and more steady with what they've done. And Dan Bell has been a steady basketball player all year long, but Baucom's really starting to play better and better and more consistent. And in addition to Byron Bytoy coming off the bench has really given us a lift there both board wise and offensively. Alan Raymond is injured for this ball game. Will he be able to play much at all? He hasn't been playing a whole bunch of play. No, he won't play at all. He has a severely sprained ankle and plus he doesn't feel well today, so he definitely won't play in this ball game. Starting lineup the same as it has been? Yes. We'll start with Maxwell at one guard and Sean Anderson, which has a big responsibility in this game because he's guarding a player named Myers, is a heck of a shooter, so he'll have his hands full, as will Maxwell. He'll be guarding Crockett, which is just a jet out on the floor. So our two guards will be tested tonight even Though we do plan to play a lot more zone than we have inside. Gordon Anderson will match up with Jones and then Dan Bell will match up with their all American Brown and then our other four, John Bakken will go with Taylor which at times has scored really well for him. Match up wise we're about the same as as far as size is concerned and it's just a matter of which team has come the most, which one can settle in and get down to play their game the quickest and which one can relax and go ahead and win. We feel like that we can. We feel like we have as good a basketball team right now as we've had in past years. The other matchup, Mesa and Snow, by the time this thing airs we'll know who the winner is there. How do you assess that matchup? I think Snow beat them. Mesa is extremely small. Our biggest player is 6 4. They have a 7 footer off the bench but yet basically the players they go with is six four. They have excellent shooters as far as the guard is concerned but yet intangible if they play the excellent defense I think they're rated third or fourth in the nation as far as defense is concerned. They're only average with. They're only giving up about 57 points a game and so they're not bringing letting people score a lot. They play a lot of full defense, they stand up which at times hurts Snow and I'm sure that that can create problems for them. But yet on the other hand, how do they handle Montgomery? That's going to take it to the hole that's too big, 2 inches bigger than the rest of them. How are they going to handle Heaton that's going to do the same thing and Cochran that jumps really well and they can throw Bill Floyd out there at six, seven guard. Who do they match up with? Bill Floyd. So it's going to be an interesting game if Snow can settle down and play well, which they should because they're really a mature basketball team with those three kids who had a great deal of experience. I really think Snow can beat them and well, Mesa's lost 10 ball games which means that their consistency hasn't really been there. They won their first game of the regional of their state tournament last week, 77 to 40, 44 I think it was. They won by 23 points or so against the team that was excellent. Central at one stage in their game had won 17 straight ball games but yet it's hard to tell. We're not at home. Last year we're very comfortable playing in St. George where both the Utah teams won. I think both ball games will really be a battle, but I'll go out on the limb and say I think Snow will win. One sad note with this region regional down here is always the support of the Arizona fans. Utah fans for Snow and Dixie always show up en masse. Arizona fans don't seem to show up that much. Well, there's a lot going on here in Phoenix. Suns are in town. Arizona State also playing tonight. There's a lot going on and junior college basketball really doesn't create that much excitement here. The gym we're playing in probably seats 800 to 1,000 people. Very small gym. They only have bleachers on one side of the gym. It's about like one half of the lower section as far as our gym is concerned, which wouldn't hold nearly the people that we get to our ball games and then they only get a half a crowd as far as that's concerned. We've got a lot of people I know that are flying down from St. George. There's already half this motel which has over 150 rooms is filled up with St. George people. So there's a lot of them coming down. There's also some down here from Snow. We should have a full house, but yet the support that we're normally used to just isn't there. But yet we are playing excellent basketball teams. There will be a lot of major college players playing this evening. It's nice to be here again. This is what you work for. Well, it's the sixth year in a row, however, we have yet to win. After coming to Arizona, we won our first game and lost the second one. One year that Yavapai went on to the nationals and took fourth in the nation. Nation. A game that we played excellent in also. That was the game that our kids that are sophomores right now played in. Gordon Anderson and John Bauckham and Keener and all those players that are returned missionaries all played in that ball game. And we really think we have a chance to win. We've played this team before and we played terrible. We didn't shoot it well, we didn't pass it well. We missed our free throws and we just won very sharp in that ball game. We think we're a lot better than that. However, I'm sure they are as well. It's going to be a challenge. Neil Roberts, thank you for being with us. Good luck tonight. Thank you. Chad, ignore that. As long as you promised me that you'd do that. It's an NC to a violation to have like a. That's when it would be released. Gordon, from our office also. Okay. Three, two, one. I'm talking with Dick Kuchin, the head basketball coach at University of California, Berkeley. Coach, Cal Berkeley program. It's headed up in the back. Yeah, it really is. We've kind of turned the corner in our program, I think, over the last couple years in that we're starting to attract the type of student athletes into our program that it takes to be competitive in the league. And right now we're very competitive. The Pac10 program is all throughout the league. It's no longer just UCLA against the world. It really isn't. Actually, this past year with UCLA tying with Washington State for the conference championship was the first time that UCLA had been involved in the conference championship over the last four years. So there's a lot more balance in the league, and I think that that trend is going to continue. Let's talk about Gordon Anderson. What got you on to Gordon? Well, you know, I think when you have certain needs in your program, you want to try to look to fulfill those needs. And basically when you become involved in recruiting junior college players. We have not recruited a lot of junior college players to our program, but when we are looking at junior college players, we look for certain needs that we have involved in our program. And I think there's a couple areas that we really need help in, and one is on the backboard, and the other area is that we have got to make sure that we have enough depth in our front line to be as competitive as we want to. Because the way the game of college basketball is played today, there's got to be four guys up front that can. That can give you minutes. Cal Berkeley program. Will Gordon be starting? Will he be off the bench, or is it too early to tell? Well, I think a lot of that's going to depend on, you know, Gordon. You know, I think that in recruiting, it's a mistake to promise anybody that they're going to start. I think I would be disappointed if Gordon didn't have an impact on our basketball program, particularly as a junior college player coming to the university. But in terms of starting, I think that sometimes there's a tendency on the part of people to look too hard at starting or maybe set that as a goal. The way college basketball is today, teams are eight and nine deep, and to be part of those eight and nine are really what the goal of any player should be. Specifically, how did you get to Dixie and Gordon Anderson, once you got into the junior college recruiting, well, we knew what our needs were. So, you know, you follow the progress of certain programs that are good, solid basketball programs. And Dixie has placed a lot of people to Division I schools, and his coach has done an excellent job. Coach Roberts has done an excellent job in terms of teaching his players the fundamentals that it takes to be highly competitive on the Division 1 level. And I think that it's one of the programs around the country that people look at. And we had an opportunity to see Gordon play, knowing that we wanted to have a chance to see this particular program play and evaluate the players that were involved in the program. We had a chance to do that, and Gordon caught our eye because the intensity and the level with which he plays at and he's a highly competitive player. The intensity was the thing that attracted you then? Well, yeah, I think that it takes that type of intensity on the Division 1 level to be as competitive, particularly in our league. Cal Berkley recruiting, how has it gone otherwise with other recruits coming in? Well, we think it's gone very well this year, and I think it's the backbone to the program. I mean, you've got to attract good, solid players if you. They're going to be highly competitive. We've signed four freshman players today, and we're really happy about that. Jim Beatty, who played on the state championship team at Oregon, and Jeff Ewling, who was on the second. Second team all state in Oregon, and then two guards from both from California, University of California, Berkeley. Reputation has been varied all the way from academically successful to student riots to basketball excellence. It seems to be a mixed bag at University of California. What is the campus really like? Well, you know, I've been fortunate in terms of, as a coach being involved at the University of Iowa and in the Big Ten and being involved at Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana, and now as the head coach at the University of California. And the experience for me has been really a positive one, and I think it's been a positive one for our players that have been involved in the program. And I think that Berkeley has a uniqueness about it. There's probably something for everybody at the University of California, and there are sometimes the university gets labeled or tagged, you know, because of what did go on in the 60s, and we're all aware of that. But by the same token, it's one of the great academic institutions in the country, and I think that we're all aware of that also. The future of University of California basketball. Do you Anticipate playing for the championship this year. Well, we. Counting. 1, 2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Can't tell if there comes a big one or not. Got him. Yep, it's still wiggling. 3. Hey, who's the next hitter? 1, 2, 3. Talking with Dixie High School head baseball coach Don Lake. Coach, this is what you've been working for all year, the chance at the state championship. Well, we're playing in the playoff. We'd like to gone in first place. Not had this play, but at least we're in a playoff and the winner gets to go to state and that's what it's all about. It's nice that the coin flip came out on Dixie side. You don't have to travel for this one. Well, it's always nice to play down here. It's tough to ride 250 miles and get up for a ball game. I hope it works the same way for them coming down here. It does give you an advantage to play on your home field just because of the mileage. This year is pretty good Chase to try to get those state playoff berths in the region. Well, yeah, we had a real good even league this year. Any team could have won it. I don't know if the best team won it, but they were a good ball club. But they turned around and won a couple big ones over Springvale and put them in and then they came back and beat Pace in the last two games. So I guess you'd say that they're probably the best team. Let's talk about your ball club. Dixie had some injury problems early in the year. You lost a couple of kids. Well, we've struggled, but we've been able to win a little bit. We've juggled and had different players in different positions all year, but these kids have had some good moments of playing. Now, yes, we lost. Dave Esplin and another Wade boy went on a trip and so we had to move the break up the infield, but we had. And so we've been struggling a little bit pitching wise. The Jolly kid's been stalwart for you. Jolly hasn't been beaten this year at the league. I think he lost one game early in the Sunshine Tournament, but he's been tough so far. We hope that he's tough tomorrow. Let's talk about that revamped infield. How has it worked for you? Well, we've had a lot of changes in the infield and some days we've looked around and other times the games we've lost, we've broken down in the infield, but it's kind of coming together right now. The Wade boy is back and he's playing a little more consistent than he was. And the Hale boy, he's probably got as much talent as any boy around. When he's doing things good, he's really great. Let's talk about that outfield and how it's done for you this year. Well, the outfield, we had two regulars back from last year, and Mitch Britton played for me last year. He's back early in the year. They were really outstanding catching, but we had a little trouble with ground balls. We've been working on that, and I think we're getting that done. We hope the big play at home, we haven't been able to pull that one off, but we hope that we can get that done. Now Cole's shifting from second base to behind the plate. That's a completely different position. It isn't just like moving to another spot in the infield. Well, luckily, years ago, when he was little, I taught him how to catch. He probably did more catching than he did any other position until he got up to about started in high school and then he played in the infield. He's a little shallow on his arm. He's not that big a boy. He receives well and he thinks well behind a play. We haven't been hurt there once in a while, we get hurt stealing on him, but he's doing a real good job. We're not hurting there, only on sometimes, maybe if they go down on him. But he's picked a few guys off and he's pretty smart. One of the big losses with Esplin is his bat. He's been a strong hitter for you in previous years. Esplin, probably that's his best sport. He may not think it, but I would say if he really wanted to concentrate on baseball and work at it, he's the right size, he's got speed, he hits the ball well, he's got a good arm, what pros look for. And he could have gone a long ways in us. Too bad. We had a really outstanding team coming back until all these injuries and that came back. We had a bunch of veterans. It should have been our year, but we still came out 7 and 3, which wasn't too bad. Taking a look at that hitting, how's it going to fare against Orem? Well, we've scouted Orum, you know, and we played Oram last year in the last game of the state game up there, when we were up there and we led Them seven to nothing and then got beat nine to seven. The same pitchers pitching and Jolly pitched. And so it's going to be kind of a rematch. We know a little bit about them. They're a good ball coach. Some of their good players graduate the Tate kid and Peterson and they've got a younger team. But from my scouting reports, they say they're a fine ball cub. Taking a look at this game tomorrow, 2:15 in the afternoon. Looks like the weather may hold for you. Well, we're hoping. I was watching the weather reports that said a little wind and storm was coming, but I hope it doesn't hit St. George. We'd like to go tomorrow with a good, hot, hot day. Give those boys some heat down here. What about the state tournament? Have you had a chance to find out about some of the powers from around the state? Yeah, we know pretty much. Murray's always a tough ball cub. They've been in there for years. Murray's a tough ball club. Ogden's coming back in, won the state last year is pretty tough. They tell me American Forks got a good ball club up here. And it's Pleasant Grove. Two teams in there. So I think that's probably your powers. Murray and Murray and Ogden's probably the two powerhouses this year. Let's shift gears just a little bit. Former Dixie High star had best game of his career last night against Oakland. Well, it said that on the radio. Sounded real great, winning seven to one and he went the route and I heard that he felt real good about it and he says that looks like everything's going okay. We hope him. Well, Just hold the table. Quarters up a little bit. Houston Oilers. What's going to be the outcome this coming year? It seemed to hurt to have them go. Well, I'll tell you what, it's been kind of frustrating in the last couple of years because of. I think we've had more than anything a continuity problem. We've got the talent to be a great football team just like anybody else. And there's not that much difference between the winners and the losers in the NFL. It's a team that's a team that plays well together and works hard together. Teams that are going to be successful if you have. As far as Earl Campbell, is he still a great hero in Texas? Yeah, he is. He's still a great running back. You know, a lot of people said Earl, Earl's over the hill now and he's lost a few steps and everything like that. He is still as good as he ever was, believe me. I think the only thing that he needs is just a little bit of help. And I don't think that we've given him the kind of help that he needs in order to show his greatness. It's an understatement. But no man can do it by himself. And I think you can see that with our football team the last couple of years. But I'll tell you, if there's one guy that would try and do it all by himself, it's Earl Canmore. He's a phenomenal football player. What about the usfl? Now there's going to be Houston Blitz or Houston Gamblers team there. Also, what effect has USFL had on the attitude of the players in the NFL? Well, I think everybody in the NFL wants the USFL to go, and I think the reason they want that is you can see what happens. First of all, it gives more young people a chance to play for professional football with all the teams. There are a lot of players that would never have had a chance to really play professional football without the usfl. As far as, excuse me, as far as players are concerned, they want the USFL to go because it gives the players a chance to do certain things. You know, usually in the past, if you're negotiating a contract and you don't come to terms with the team, the team will say, well, okay, great, we'll see you later, or we'll see you in a couple of weeks, you know, because you'll be back. There's no other place you can go. Now there's a situation where players can turn and say, well, look, I'm getting, I can go to the USFL and be in this situation or you can sign me and I'll be in this situation. So there's a competitive basis there. And I think you can see it with some of the top college stars this last year coming out and signing with the USFL getting good contracts and the NFL, you know, can't do anything about it. You've seen some of the, some very good players from the National Football League jump over and start playing for the usfl. So the competition, I think, is good. And we, I think, speaking for the players, all wanted to succeed. Gina Chop, what was that mean to the Players Association? Well, I think that it's going to be a good situation. We went through a very difficult year this last year with the strike and of course, nobody likes to strike. Everybody would have rather been out there playing. But you're looking at, I think the public has a distorted view of what happened during the strike. You know, I don't think you're looking at a bunch of money hungry football players. I think you're looking at players. And knowing how big of a business the NFL is feeling that the benefits need to be like a big business. The hospitalization, the dental care, the retirement plan, you know, there are just a lot of things in there, injury clauses, a lot of things in there that the players wanted and I think the players deserved and needed. Football is a high risk business. You can go out on the football field and you know, you never know what going to happen. It's a short lived business. One time you can be out there and you can be playing, everything can be great and all of a sudden you take a couple of hits or a hit and your career is over with. You never know. So basically what the players were saying is, look, owners, this is a big business. We know it's a big business. We want to increase our benefits and make sure we're taken care of like a big business. And that's basically what it was all about. There seems to be an image problem with the NFL this year all of a sudden, the strike, drug problems, et cetera, et cetera. Do the players feel that? Well, I think so. I mean, I think there have been more things come out of the NFL this year than I think there ever has. And you know, as players, we understand and realize that. I think we realize that we're no different than any other profession, any other big business. I mean, you're going to have things like that happen in America in other situations. And so, you know, it just so happens that in the NFL you're in the public side and. Anything you do is going to be brought to the attention of the public. So it's kind of unfortunate that way. But you know, people know that going in football is like I said before, football is a big business. People love to watch it and people are interested in it. And I guess, you know, anything that happens, the public's going to find out about it. Mr. You mentioned some of the clauses. What are some of the clauses? Some of the things that the players got that they wanted in addition to money. And what are some of the things that they may like to get? Mr. I think, first of all, I think one of the best things that came from this, from the strike, was the severance pay. When a player gets cut or waived, depending on what year he's in the league, he gets a lump sum to get adjusted back into the normal society. I mean, here you got guys coming out, out of college who haven't been making a dime, okay? And they're not going to a business in most cases, they're not going to a business where they're going to be making the minimum wage. They're going to a business where they're going to be paid pretty well a lot higher than most of them have ever been accustomed to living. And you're going to go that way. And depending on how well you do, depends on what that structure or level you reach. I mean, some of them start out. Jim Kelly, the quarterback for the Houston Gamblers, just signed something like a 3.2 million dollar contract. I mean, the guy has been in college making, I mean, just barely getting by on a scholarship, having his schooling paid for. All of a sudden he comes out and sets himself up for life. Well, some players aren't in that situation, but some players are in a situation where they haven't had a whole lot and all of a sudden they've got money. And I don't, you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, some of them don't know what to do with it and squander it. Some of them do know what to do with it and plan for the future. But one of the best things that came from this strike, I think, is a severance pay where a player gets cut and he has to go back into a normal lifestyle. He's got some money to help him adjust. And the owner said, great, we'll give you this extra money, but we're going to do it on a severance basis. So we're going to keep it in a lump sum. And then when a player gets waived, then we're going to give him the money so he can adjust. Now he can go out and squander it if he doesn't know, but we're going to give him a chance to adjust into the normal lifestyle. And I think that was one of the best things. What are some of the things that they didn't get like that? Well, you know, originally they were coming out saying they wanted a percentage of the gross, you know, and things like that. I think that, I think the NFL Players association took that stand to make the owners listen, hey, we mean business. We're serious about this. We're not just here for the heck of it. We're really serious about this whole situation and that of course, we didn't get percentage of the gross. They've got a minimum salary players in the league so much just like this Jan Stennerud thing. Jan Stennerud, a kicker, used to be for the Kansas City Chiefs and used to play for. Well, now he plays for the Green Bay Packers. He's been in the league X amount of years. So his minimum salary has to be 200,000 a year. Well, you know, the chances of that. That's one situation where depending on how many years you're in the league, you have to have a minimum. I mean, there is a minimum salary for you rookies. I think the minimum salary now is $50,000 or something like that. And that's great for a rookie coming out of the league. I mean, who wouldn't want that? It gives players a chance coming out to make some money. And you know, these are just some of the things. A minimum wage, hospitalization, hospitalization benefits were increased. The dental benefits were increased. Our retirement plan was increased. You know, these are just some of the things that the players got. And you know, it was a very difficult situation for everybody. I mean, the players really, players were suffering and of course the owners because of not playing. The television contracts hurt them a little bit because we weren't playing. So everybody suffered. No, I don't even think anybody wanted to go on strike. Kind of a very. It was a difficult situation for everybody. What about Gifford Nielsen, future with the Houston honors? Is it as rosy as it was a couple years ago? Well, right now I'm in a great situation. I'm the starting quarterback down there. I've got everything going for me and as far as that's concerned now all I have to do is go out and play and perform and keep it, stay healthy. I think that's been my. That's been the toughest thing to do is just stay healthy. And I don't. I've never been an injury prone person, but it seems like when it's just kind of come in a rash of incidents. But, you know, I've got it right where I want it. Now all I have to do is go out and play. Would you like to stay at Houston or would you like to go out someplace else? I love the city of Houston. I love the people down there. We really enjoyed it down there. Of course, both my wife and I were born and raised in Provo, so it was a big adjustment going to Houston. I think. I think the biggest mountain they have down there is going over the 610 freeway. You get up there, you're in the hills, but it's a little bit different lifestyle than it is up here. But we really like it. I would love to stay in Houston at this point. Pro football is there as much of a drug Problem as appears to be. Well, I think that there's been a lot of publicity lately because of, I don't know the real reasons why, but the publicity in the NFL on the drug problem has really been increased. There is a problem. I mean, we've got three guys in our defensive secondary that were caught this last year in different drug related incidents. There is a problem. I can't deny that there's a problem, but I, I don't think it's as widespread as everybody thinks it is. Did it surprise you to have those teammates, Doc? Did you suspicion that there were problems? Well, I knew in my situation, I kind of knew that something was going on, but I didn't want to know. Maybe that's the wrong attitude to have. You know, I don't believe in it. I don't think that people need to do it. I think that. I don't think our boss, their bodies need to be in that kind of a state in order for us to perform whatever we're doing, whether we're in the business office or on an athletic field or whatever. And my players, pretty much, the players on our team pretty well know where I stand. So they don't come to me and say, hey, look, this is what's going on or whatever. So, you know, you kind of suspect that something's going on, but they kind of keep it from me trying to stay away from it as much as I can. I want to help them out as much as I can, but, you know, I don't want to be involved with. What about the direction of pro football? There are a lot of good running backs in the league right now, and yet it seems like the passing game is becoming more popular like it is in college. Well, I think there are a couple of teams that are making that, making it really flattering for players, I mean, people and teams to change to the passing game. You've got the Chargers and you got the 49ers and you've got the Cincinnati Bengals who are just throwing the heck out of a football. And people like that. People think that it can be done with the passing rules. Right now the advantage goes to a passing team. And so, you know, a lot of people are starting to turn to a pass. I still think you've got to have in the NFL, I think you've got to have a good mix. I think you've got to have a good running attack, and I think you've got to have a good passing attack. You look at the teams that are consistently in the super bowl and they've got the. They've got a mix. Defense is what seems to be the direction now? Well, defenses are doing just about everything possible to stop those passing games. You know, they're disguising defenses more. They're not playing true rules on what we consider like a zone defense. They're playing some zone, some man combinations, and they're doing everything they can to give give quarterbacks a false picture or a false read. It's kind of like a chess game. You know, I'm sure these guys are going home. These defenses are going home and say, look, if we can show them a zone on this side and a man on this side, they'll never figure it out or whatever. So defenses are having to learn to adjust to the new passing, new passing tendencies that are coming in the NFL. Is coaching getting better in the league? Is the coaching getting better? Well, we've got good coaches. I mean, they're top quality coaches. They're the best. You know, coaching in the NFL is tough business. No, there are some coaches that are entrenched and will stay with their teams forever, I think. And the rest of them, I think, are just kind of. I don't know. You look at last year, you look at the pressure that's in the NFL. You talk about pressure. You have Dick Vermeil resigned. You have Bill Walsh of San Francisco, who wants to. Who wants to get out of it and who else? It was one other big surprise. Oh, Walt Michaels, New York Jets. I mean, the jets are right there. He's brought them all the way. He's built a great team. And all of a sudden he says, I've had it. Pressure. There's a lot of pressure in the NFL. Do you suppose my kickers. I have to stand up for them every week. And when they win, I'm on top of the world. I make sure all my teammates know about them. You're catching the heat down there. And all these. Those guys can't play. They're playing with a bunch of high school teams, you know, all these guys from the Big Eight, the Big Ten. But I make sure my teammates know exactly what my Cougars are doing, who they play, who they beat and how many records they set. I think in the first year, they knocked all mine out. Dew and Mark Wilson and McMahon keep in touch regularly? Well, not as regularly as I think. You know, just like Mark and I usually do a football camp together every year, but this is the first year we have, and I came down here and did this one, but we keep in touch. They're all Good friends and good board events. You know, one's in Oakland, one's in Chicago, and I'm in Houston. We're just about on the furthest points of the furthest points of the country. Do you think Lavelle will ever leave un? I don't think so. I don't know. You never know, but I don't think so. He's got a great thing going there. He's got a good tradition. I think things are working out pretty good for him. Well, they build a really strong tradition right now, and I think that they, you know, with their strong tradition and especially with the way they do things, I think that they'll continue to recruit the athletes they need to keep it going. If I were quarterback, I'd want to go to byu, and if I were a receiver, I'd want go. Because you're throwing the ball, you're learning how to read defenses, you're knowing how to respond to different situations. And it's a great school for that kind of teaching. Just like a few years ago. Well, even now, Stanford. I mean, quarterbacks who went to Stanford have been really successful in the NFL because they went to a school that. So they knew how to read and how to adjust and everything like that. It's a great situation. If you're a throwing quarterback, the last three quarterbacks would be what you have only been. I think Steve Young's got a lot of talent. He's a great athlete. He might be the best athlete of all the quarterbacks they've had there. You know, just as far as just. Just pure athletic ability. He's strong, he's fast. I haven't seen him, and I don't know how well he reads defenses or whatever, but I'm sure that he's gotten better over the last couple years. But he's a great athlete. He'll do all right. I'm sure he'll get a chance to play. Do you regret not throwing as much at Houston? You round the ball, Darryl Campbell. That much of a change coming out of byu, or would you like to throw more? Houston, I think. Well, you know, what happened was when Bomb drafted Earl, he was going to sit in the high formation. He had big offensive linemen. He had Leon Cray and he had Bob Young and he had Fischer. He had a great. He had Casper on that side. And what they'd do is they just rode arrow on that side. You know, we'd just line up and say, look, here we come. You stop us. It was that kind of philosophy. We had a Big blocking back and Tim Wilson and it was just hard for people to stop us. And consequently that's what we were doing basically is running. I don't even know if we had any drop back passes. We had all play action passes every time we wouldn't turn around hand or we'd go to play action pass off him or whatever. Put a lot of pressure on him but that's the way Bum wanted things run. And it was completely different than what we had at the BYU where we were throwing the ball 30, 40 times a game. So it was a little bit different of adjustment but in one sense it was really good because I had a chance to see a real good running program running game. I think we're going to throw the ball a little bit more this year than we have in the pass you get. What we do is normally we just got everything started just that. Bombard you with questions. Buffalo is it really the end all of the world in the NFL? Oh no, I enjoy Buffalo. I think more players now are starting to enjoy it. When I first went in the league, I think there was only about four or five guys who lived in Buffalo during the off season and now I think the suburbs of 15 to 20 and I've got a lot of good friends there. Weather is a little harsh in the winter, but it hasn't been pretty mild the last couple of winters. So I kind of enjoy it and I like being and I like playing the Buffalo running back in the NFL. Not an easy chore, is it? No, it's not easy and it's made it a little bit more difficult because a lot of great running backs coming out of college now every time we turn around there's a great running back and it looks like maybe if the USL is successful they'll kind of deplete the supply to the NFL. So it'll make it a lot easier on older guys like myself coming out of the Atlantic Coast Conference. ACC has had the basketball reputation, slowly getting the football reputation. Is it an underrated conference for football? It is if you really nine, 10 years ago when I was playing in the ACC we always had a team or two in the top 20 and when I was a junior and senior we were eighth or ninth in the country. We were really overlooked because we were really overshadowed with our basketball. But it's a good conference, it's produced a lot of good NFL football players who've been in the league a while and made names for themselves. So I think we've been unjustly underrated for years at Buffalo. What about the direction of the team? There's been a lot of complaints from fans. It seems to be about the owner, Ralph Wilson. He doesn't spend enough money, et cetera, et cetera. What about the feeling of the players? Well, I'd say I'll tell you how I feel about it. We're there to do the job. We had a coaching change this year, able to see Coach Knox go, but he's in Seattle, he'll do a great job there. We've got a good coach this year, K. Stevenson, and a lot of guys like him and he's a good coach and we're going to do a good job. And I got back from Buffalo maybe a little over a month ago now and that's the hardest I've seen guys work in a minicamp. And we're all excited about the season and I think we're all just preparing to have a really good year and forget about all the politics and money hassles and everything and get back to playing football. People think of Buffalo, they think of O.J. simpson. It seems like every running back has Simpson's shadow to run in. How has that affected your game? Well, it affected. It affected my game only because I didn't play when Juice was there. So it affected me that way. But he's been gone now, I guess three or four years from Buffalo and I think we made a smooth transition with Joe Cribbs and at times myself. And we've come up with big plays and we've done the job. And you kind of tend to forget the superstars when you winning. And so I think maybe they haven't completely forgotten Juice, but they know that other backs are capable of doing a good job. The excitement about the new coach, will he bring more of a passing attack to Buffalo? I think he will. I think K. Stevenson is a pass oriented, really complex offense type person and I'm really kind of interested in see what happens because NFL coaches are, I guess, creatures of habit. We saw Washington win the super bowl with two tight end, one back formation. I'm really kind of interested to see how far not just Buffalo, but other teams take that formation. Because Washington is so successful. It's going to be interesting to see what happens. One of the complaints about pro football has been the sameness. Do you see see more variety coming into the pro game now from team to team, sameness between team to team or just. Yeah, one team looks like another team. And the same thing happens every Sunday. Do you see more variety starting now? Well, the last few years. There's been a lot of variety with the different formations, the wide open attack, San Diego and their attack, their passing attack, and they've opened things up and we adopted three years ago the Dallas formation, shotgun formation, and everybody's shifting, putting people in different spots, getting defensive, calling audibles all the time. So I think it's, I don't think it's been the sameness, so to speak. I think everybody's trying to adopt things that work for them. But as I said earlier, it's kind of interesting to see that Washington won the super bowl with such a simple offense, so to speak. And it's going to be interesting to see what everybody else in the NFL does with it. How many camps do you perform for kids every year? This is the only one I've done for a while, for a few years early in my career. I used to do a lot back on the east coast, that's where I'm from and I, I used to do a lot, but I've kind of stayed home the last four or five years, so I really haven't done anything. Well, two I haven't asked, I haven't been asked. Two reasons. One, I haven't been asked and two, I haven't been interested. A lot of people are wondering what got you from the east coast clear out to St. George, Utah, midsummer well, I live in Denver, so it's not that far away. And Cecil Stockdale is a friend of mine and he's coaching here at Dixie College and he asked us to come down. This is about the other extreme. After spending winters in Buffalo to come to the summer in St. John, I can't believe how high it is. Mr. What about some of the kids you work with? There's a lot of good athletes. All I was surprised to find as many good athletes in this camp as I've seen and we had a practice yesterday and I kind of introduced to the running backs the kind of things that NFL running backs have to do to be successful. And we work hard at it and we do it really repetitiously ruining. And I come out here today and I don't have to do anything. They picked it up so easily. So I was really impressed with the kids and how they work and their attitude and the ability to pick things up so quickly. What about that situation with Joe Crisp and his holdout in Buffalo? What did the players think on Buffalo and how did they well, no one really begrudges someone for trying to make more money or hold out as a holdout tactic to make More money because it's been done an awful lot in Buffalo. Unfortunately, guys have had to do that to increase their salaries. So no one begrudges Joe Cribbs and most of us hopes that he gets what he deserves. And that's all any of us want. We're not greedy people asking for outrageous things. We want to be treated fairly and get what we deserve. If we work for it, why not get it? What about the pressure on your personal life, being in the public eye so much. That must have been quite a shock coming into the NFL and having so much media and fan focus on you, the individual. And Buffalo Bills as a team. It's a little different than it was in high school and say college, but it's. You have to learn how to accept it and kind of take advantage of it and don't abuse it. I don't know. It really doesn't affect me that much because I kind of stay away from the media. I don't do many interviews. I'm very low keyed and that's the way I approach the media, in a low key way. Atlantic Coast Conference, we talked about it. Gaining prestige. Looking back at college football now from a professional standpoint, do you see more of an evening out in college football that the ACC is catching up with the Big Ten and et cetera, et cetera, wherever you go in the country? Well, I think all the conferences are evening out pretty much. And I think mainly it's due to the way recruiting is done now and a number of scholarships are being offered to prospective college players. And I think that's helped enormously. Where once we just can't go up and stockpile great players, they got a limit on how many scholarships they can give out, a number of trips a high school student can take to a college. So I think it's even. And that's why you begin to see a balance in college football across the country. We were talking with Gifford Nielsen about. It seems to be a trend, or at least appears to be a trend to more of the passing game in the NFL away from the running game. Even though there are a lot of outstanding running backs, he said that there seems to be more balancing having to get that passing game to go with the running back. From a running back's position, do you see more passing? Do you see an increase in the running backs game, more balance? Oh, sure, sure. When I first came in the league with O.J. simpson and all the other running backs in the league, that's all it was. It was, everybody knew Juice was going to get the ball or the running back on that team was going to get the ball. And the last couple of years has really opened up the offense and they started to utilize the running backs and pass panels. We run a lot of. A lot of pass patterns. We have to run and read the defensive secondary on the run. We have to determine whether it's a man defense or a zone and have to adjust our routes accordingly. So that's been a big difference in the passing game for the running back. Where normally we used to be. In the earlier days, we used to either stayed in a block or ran a little flat down a little pattern really didn't get involved. We used mainly as control to control the underneath coverage or whatever. Now we've become primary receivers. We have to be agile and quick and be able to catch the ball and they really incorporate the running back into the passing game, which I think is good. I enjoy it. Do running backs really treat the offensive line with tender loving care? There's not an offensive lineman. I don't love them. If they don't do their job, there's no way possible we can do ours, that's for sure. What about Reggie McKenzie retiring does that? Well, that's news to me. I hadn't heard Reggie was retiring. I know there'd been some talk in Buffalo about Reggie being traded or asked to go somewhere else. I had no idea that he had retired. He has retired. Well, may or may not. It's tough to get the. There are rumors that he's retiring, words that he's going to be let go, words that he's going to be traded, and it's kind of a lineage of things. Well, I kind of think that Reggie will be traded somewhere, that he'll stay somewhere in the AFC United States Football League. Has that meant a lot for you as a player? I tell you, I've really enjoyed the usfl. We live in Denver and Keith and I go down and see the Denver goal plan. I enjoy it for two reasons. One, I'm not planning on getting beat up and two, I can sit back and enjoy a game and I don't care who wins. So I kind of enjoy it. Mr. That increases your bargaining power though, doesn't it? Well, for the younger guys, it really does. For an old guy like me, What it does is I don't have as much competition as I would have had ordinarily. Fellas working from the defensive angle, the increased passing game, much more, more young passers coming into the league. That puts extra pressure on you back there. Yes, it does. And not only are there more of them, they're a lot better. I guess as the college game becomes more sophisticated and more like the professional level, I think it's enabling a young quarterback to step in and play smarter than. Years ago, I was asked about the Western Athletic Conference. The WAC has had a so, so reputation as far as football, especially after the Arizona schools left the conference. Do you feel coming from the Western Athletic Conference that it's underrated, that it's a much better conference? Yeah, I think so. I think it's a real strong conference. I don't think we get. I don't think the WAC gets as much notoriety as, as it deserves. It still is a very wide open conference. It's a lot of fun to play in because most of the schools are in fairly good weather and the people who are involved with the WASD love football. But like you say, after the Arizona teams left the conference, it kind of took from there, you know, rising. What year did you graduate? So did you play against Duke? Brady played against. Remarkable. So you were used to the passing game when you got into the pros and facing the passing game? Well, not facing it, being in the passing game, I was the passing game a little bit that we had at csu. You know, I was on the other side of the ball in the pros. So no matter who was throwing the ball, it was different really. Adjustment to going to the defensive backfield in the pros. What's the biggest adjustment going into the pros for you besides just making a switch? Having a defensive athlete attitude, being aggressive, being able to think and adjust on the move and the physical aspect of the position of the defensive back, I feel quarterback is the toughest position on the field mentally. But physically I think defensive back it's not a doubt. Physically it's not the toughest, most grueling position on the field for a number of reasons. One, not only do you have to be fast running straight ahead, you have to be fast running backwards, then being able to adjust and run sideways, then run forward, being most of the time the smaller guy on the team. You have to be tougher than a lot of guys on the team because you're tackling too much. 225, 250 pound fullbacks, very fast tailbacks, covering receivers that are 6566664, run jump, think physically it's a lot more involved in defensive back. So do you feel that the defensive back is the best athlete in the game? Without a doubt. Sort of an injustice in the game. Game. Also, he's the lowest paid athlete on the field, too. What about New England, the Steve Grogan situation? Will he be your quarterback this year? I don't know. I certainly know this for a fact, that he's very able to be our quarterback. He's proved that over the years. And playing with him for two years, I know that. He'll be in the running and if he's out there and he's our starting quarterback, quarterback, I don't think anyone will have any hesitation or doubt about being behind him because we know he can do it. The toughest quarterbacks for you to face, who are they. That I have faced? Oh, I would. I remember facing Ken Stabler two years ago. I haven't faced him yet, but just watching him on the film was without a doubt to me he's the best quarterback in the NFL. And that's Ken Anderson from Cincinnati. Unfortunately, we don't play the on this, but I think. Woodley from Miami gives me a lot of problems because he can throw and run and think he's an excellent athlete. So when you have an athlete at the quarterback position, that's just another dimension that you have to worry about. More than just an arm, more than just a right arm, but a. What about the receivers? Who has been the toughest for you to cover? Oh, I had a lot of problems with Dario Harris from Miami. You're not alone. That's good to know. But one guy that I practiced against for a year and played against for two, Frank Lewis from Buffalo, I think is funny, phenomenal. To be 35 years old and to do the things that he does at that age, to me it's amazing. And he does them well. He doesn't get a lot of notoriety. You don't hear about him. But knowing Frank and the type of person that he is, that's the way he wants. Very humble and he does his job and he does it well, but he gives him a lot of problems. Any running backs that are particularly tough for you to bring down? Earl Campbell. Earl Campbell. He and I had a battle a couple years ago that I don't think either one of us was. It was a do or die situation and luckily I came out alive. Earl Campbell's tough. Joe Cribbs is extremely tough. What game was it that you had a ballot? I remember that was the first game, The first game I started in the NFL. Mike Haynes had a problem with one lung, so I had to play. And it was my first NFL game, 1981. I was 81 and I started and watched Irving with tape. What a time to get broken in against Earl Campbell. And first, second play of the game, I got hurt. I came up and Earl was running a sweep and he had a big guard in front of him and he was behind the guard. And I remember thinking, what in the world am I going to do? And I tried to take on the guard and get a hand on Earl and I ended up hurting my whole body. But I remember on the sideline being in a lot of pain. I realized that, boy, if I can't take it, I won't be in this league very long. I just somehow got back out there and had a good game. I had, I think, six or seven unassisted tackles and interceptions. How many of them gets there? All. All of them gets there. All. Is that right? Yeah. And that game, win, loss, you know, to me that was. I felt like I really. I proved to myself that I could play in the NFL. And after that I was. I felt great. Who won that game? We did. It was One of the two games we won that year. Two and 14. That year. There seemed to be some. Oh, go ahead. Did Gifford play in that game? No. David played. There seemed to be some turmoil revolving around Hanna and Gray. What sort of problems did that cause with New England as a team? John Hanna at one time was very well respected by the New England Patriots players and other team involved. I think what happened is that he made a couple of moves that emulated some disrespect. And through the disrespect, I believe he became bitter. And through his bitterness, he installed in other people a negative attitude toward him. And when there's any negativity vibes going around on a team, team atmosphere, I believe that you don't have to say anything or do anything. It's just felt. And I think he felt it and he felt like the best thing for him to do was to get out of the game. Apparently he wasn't interested in being traded or if he did request to be traded to New England Patriots felt that they couldn't get anything for him. Possibly, I don't know. But based upon his decision to retire, he probably felt like that was the best thing for everyone. New England was pressing towards the top not too long ago. Will he be back there again this year? Oh, I think so. I think one of our top. We've got a long hard roll to hold, but in our conference we've got the Jets, Miami, Buffalo and Baltimore and it's going to be tough. I think the winner of Our conference will definitely be somewhere close to the super bowl. If not there, I really do, because four other five teams I think toughest around and I think with our defense coming on the way it did toward the end of the year, I think we're going to be someone to be dealt with. Over the past decade or so, it seems like. Well, it's obvious that the defenses in the NFL are becoming more sophisticated. In your short time in the NFL, have you felt more sophisticated defense coming on, requiring more thinking among the defensive players? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Just in the short period I've been there. He used to play his own defense and you just run to an area, just wait. Now you're zoning the pattern, which involves a lot more thinking, a lot more reaction, a lot more study. So it's becoming even more of a thinking man's game. It was like that all along. I still believe 80% of the game, especially on a professional level, is mental. Because if you didn't have the physical tools, you wouldn't be there from the beginning. And where you make the difference is in the mental preparation and the mental attitude. And then 20% of your physical toughness incorporated with that is your physical ability and talent. But if you didn't have superior talent, you wouldn't be there. So extremely complicated now. Extremely complicated. So a lot more study times required nowadays. I think New England fans, are they kind to the team, Are they pretty rough? I don't think any New England fans read Utah newspapers. But no, I don't like them very much. To be very honest, they're narrow minded. Narrow minded. They might call it as being honest, but they're honest. They're not very nice people. They're different people. They're fans. And they're true to the sense of the word fanatics, I think. But they are definitely to generalize and say they're all like that. Because I met some super people, people who I wouldn't trade their friendship for anything. But most of them I don't understand. You find a difference, significant difference in fans as you go from city to city. Buffalo fans were fanatics in the sense that they were crazy about Buffalo Bills. Buffalo Bills can do no wrong. And, and they weren't too happy with anyone else. You go in there and say, hey, I'm a New England patriot, well, they immediately hate you. But that's part of the team hometown spirit. That's sort of understandable. But in New England, they love you as long as you won. If you lose, then I don't care who you are. New England Patriot. Just think if you lost last week, if you won, you're the greatest. And that inconsistency to me is sick. Is there any city that you've been to where the visiting team gets a positive reaction from the fans? Not so much because they hate the home team, but because they're willing to give you credit. I can't think of where it was, but that's happened to me while I was with New England. I can't remember what team it was, but that's happened before and that's real nice. No, no, I'm not very known, so I can kind of stay back. But I like it that way. I don't need all the fanfare and all the autographs and all that. I'd rather just when I'm out there, I'm out there. When I leave the stadium, leave me alone, you know, just a normal guy. Would you recommend pursuing a pro football career for young college football players? No. I like to see them play college football, play football as long as they want, but I don't, I believe that professional football should be for them, should be something that if it happens, it's great. If it doesn't, there's no world shattering event. A lot of guys base their whole life, I want to play, play professional football. And they gear everything toward that. And I don't think they should do that. I don't think they should do that toward anything professional football. I think they must realize when you go from college football to professional football, it's no longer a game, it's actually no longer a sport, it's a business. And as soon as you sign a contract on a professional team, you become a businessman. Not an athlete, not a player, not a sportsman. You become a professional athletic businessman. You become. Your body becomes your investment. And as soon as that investment no longer yields benefits, you're thrown out of the restaurant. And if they don't realize that they can really be hurt and really be bruised emotionally if they're not careful. But as long as they know that's what they're getting into, professional football is fine. If you want to invest your body into professional football and you feel it's a good investment, go right ahead. Do you work with kids and camps very much like this? I work with the Mile High camp, I guess a couple of years ago. And at that time he was in Fort Collins. Oh, wow. And then this one, I think that's all I wanted to tell was a real camp. Do you think you learned much from the kids, I mean, about Their attitudes helps you to reflect on anything. It helps me and it reminds me that. It reminds me of how much I love the game and how much it meant to me when it was just the game and I was playing just for fun and just for the pride of. Just for the sake and the joy of winning. It kind of brings me back down to earth. And then in three weeks, I'll get back to my business. Is it possible to, given the context of pro football, is it possible to still have fun with football? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Guys on different teams that you meet. Oh, some of the greatest people you ever want to meet, you know, they're just great people. And I enjoy that a lot about professional football. The guys that you meet, like Roland, you know, just super people and boys. That's really valuable. And the traveling and the competition is still fun. You know, on game day, you often win. You don't think about the money, you think about winning. But it's just for that moment. Then after the game, you start, because if you don't ask for it, you won't get it. So, yeah, there's still some fun to be squeezed out of. And boy, if all the fun was out, I don't care how much fun, I wouldn't be in it. There is still some fun. You find the physical pain more now in pro football than after a college game, or is it still the same sort of thing? A little bit more. Because the hitting is hard, the effort, the physical effort is hard. Because, you know, in the professional ranks, everybody's superb. Whereas in college you might have one or two guys on particular teams. Since you've been in the game, how many injuries have they had in professional? I blew my knee out, I guess, in 80 when I was drafted by Rough Fog. I put my knee in the preseason game against Detroit. I didn't have surgery. I was supposed to, but I don't like getting cut, so. Had a cartilage. Where's the cartilage ligament? The nigma was operated. I used a Cybex machine and doctors were amazed. They thought they were gonna have to cut. I rehabilitated myself. Stuff and six weeks I was practicing them and I've had shoulder problems before. Last year, back when the playoff game, I hurt my shoulder. What kind of injury? Sub location. What location? Sub location. You know, the ball and socket's shoulder balls. Their soccer. That first game that you talked about, that wasn't really an injury. You just got shook up really bad on the play against. Yeah, couple groups. Yeah. If it was possible, would you like to go to another team? Would you like to be traded? No, he's not living in. No, no. I don't like living in the New England area. I'm just satisfied. I'm dissatisfied. I have nothing. Well, I'm satisfied. United States Football League. What does it mean to you personally? Oh, I think it's great. It opens up an even greater opportunity, not only for me, but for people like Cecil Stockdale who have no business out of professional football because they're too good to be sitting around. It opens the doors for those type of people because, you know, There are only 28 teams in the NFL and there are thousands of guys who are good enough to play. There's just not enough room for them. And this gives them a chance, you know, to. To get out and show their skills. So as far as it relates to me, later on down the line or even sooner, when the legs start to go and start losing a couple of seconds, a tenth of a second off your time or something, and a team, a young team in the usfl, need some experienced defensive backs. Well, that can be a problem, possibility for me. And also, if I ever decide to get into coaching, which is a very strong possibility, there's another coaching potential there for him. So I think it's going to help everyone. I really do. So he's going to have a shot? I don't know. I don't know. I think he deserves one. Whether he gets it or not. I don't know. Don't you call. Classify yourself just as an individual, not a football player? I mean, are you an outdoor lover? Oh, yeah. Fishing, Camping. Hunting somewhere. You live in Denver? Yeah, partly. My wife's from Denver and I was raised in Los Angeles. I have a child, Lamar. I have a son, Lamar James, who is great. And I didn't want to send him through the same hard life of growing up in Los Angeles that I had to go through. I think Denver was a beautiful place to grow up. So for his sake, I think Denver's feasible and very realistic for our growing child. Would you encourage him to play football or give him a tennis racket? I'd probably lean toward getting a tennis racket. But if he wanted to play football, you know, he's got all my everything that I know he has, and I'll help him, but I won't. I will. If he does want to play football, I would encourage him to play something else, too. Baseball, basketball, tennis, golf, all of it. Because I think there comes a point in time when you have to make a choice. If he's really serious about it, he never comes serious about it. Then do anything you want. Play volleyball, racketball, anything. But I don't want him to be exclusively football because that's not everything. If I had my choice, actually, I would rather him went to a law school and become a judge, sit on the United States Supreme Court. That'd be great. His name is Lamar J. Thompson. Is the ten months. He's about that stage where he's starting to run patterns. Isn't he starting to walk him a little bit, Starting to rip things down? Yeah. What about some of the kids you meet at the camps out here? Does daddy have them pressure or, you know, what do you think of some of the kids? Do you remember any of them? Yeah, there are some good athletes. Good athletes out there from. Especially from springboard or athletes remember names of any of them. What's Jake's last name? Jacobs. His nephew. Oh, I heard. Is that his name? Huh? He's 24. Out of his guy, little running back. Yeah, yeah, he's 24. He's 24. Number 24. He is a good athlete, super athlete. Other kid, Chris, I don't know his last name. He's number 27, good athlete. Then there's a quarterback at number seven. He's a Stan mark six. What are some of the things that you impress you? Oh, just they do some things that you can't actually coach naturally. They have an innate nature. Sometimes There are a lot of things that you can coach an athlete to do as far as technique, techniques, plays, fundamentals. But there are some things you can't coach. I mean, the guy has to be born with such as agile feet. You can improve their feet, speed, quickness, but they have to have a little bit to start with to really improve. You don't have anything to improve. Wasting your time. But agile feet, hip motion, ball judging, Just a field knowledge. Field knowledge also, even though they have a back turn to know that they're close to the sideline or not close to the sideline, things of that nature. And one thing also that I noticed, there are a couple of guys out there who I can tell have aggressive nature about him, that you need to play football, you have to be rather aggressive and almost have to love the rest of this. That's why some people claim that football players are a little insane. Well, he is. He is. You got to be crazy about getting knocked for another guy. That's the game, you know. Anything else, guys? It's about time for. It.